Curse

furanshisuko · Oct 10, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

n/mo
death magic: max +3+1
soul reaping:max +1
rest protecion prayers

full radiant armour
ghial staff/woe spreader (or your choice of death weapon)

bitter chill
signet of sorrow
animate bone minions
animate flesh golem (elite)
animate shambling horror
blood of the master
taste of death
rebirth

ok i made this build my self :P
start whith golem always
i got bone minions to get a big army fast once u got the army i start getting horrors and signet of sorrow works great cuz u can hit it like crazy if there's a dead corpse next to your target

Ares Ainia · Oct 10, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

yeh, mate, um....

its not exactly new/ yours, its been around since the dawn of time.

Still works though..

furanshisuko · Oct 10, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

i dont remeber saying new build

milkflopance · Oct 10, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

If it's damage you're after, swap animate flesh golem for something useful, like [skill]order of undeath[/skill]

Turbobusa · Oct 10, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

anything but flesh golem really.
I'd swap out bitter chill for deathly chill also.

Chthon · Oct 10, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Your build is, frankly, bad. Let's see what we can do to fix it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by furanshisuko

n/mo
death magic: max +3+1
soul reaping:max +1
rest protecion prayers

You're going to need a self-heal with all that life sacrificing. Look here for choices. In any event, you're going to need to drop SR to 10+X to get 8 into another attribute to support a self-heal.

Quote:

full radiant armour
ghial staff/woe spreader (or your choice of death weapon)

woe spreader = cool skin, terrible mods. In general, you do NOT want +60hp on a MM. It usually ends up increasing your sac costs needlessly.
FYI: You're going to want to do the following with your max life:
(1) Get it low enough that your self heal can support your sac costs if you have to engage solo mode b/c your monk died, ragequit, went AFK, burned through their energy on the warrior, or whatever. See the above link for self-healing options for a list of how much max health various self-heals can support.
(2) Move it up or down so that 25% max life divides evenly into your self-heal, or reasonably close to it. (For example, if your self-heal heals you for 100, then you'd want to be as close as possible to 400, 200, or 134 max life.) This prevents overhealing or underhealing. (You don't need to do this if you use a regen-based self-heal, since that healing is smooth and continuous.)
(3) Generally lower your max life as far as you are comfortable doing. This lowers your sacrifice costs, thus lowering the energy cost of healing back your sacrifices.

Quote:

bitter chill

Terrible skill. 63 armor-sensitive cold damage for 5e is junk. Pretty much all the cold damage skills in the death line stink, and this one is no exception. If you want direct damage from the death line, try rotting flesh and/or well of suffering; that's where you get your bang for the buck. If you really want to pick on a single target, necrosis is going to give you more, armor-ignoring damage than any of the cold damage skills in the death line. And you should always consider the possibility of bringing utility skills instead of direct damage...

Quote:

signet of sorrow

Decent armor-ignoring direct damage. OK.

Quote:

animate bone minions
animate shambling horror

Agggg!!! No. Just... no. Look, your army is limited to 10 spaces. Add up the DPS on minions #1 through #10 and that (plus a tiny bit of direct damage from yourself) is your total offense. Put a weak minion in any one of those spaces and the missing DPS is going to come off your bottom line. Often I find myself yelling at inexperienced minion "masters" for wasting 3 or 4 slots with weak minions; you're wasting 9 slots.

Quick rundown on minion DPS for you:
Fleshy: ~26
Fiend: ~14
Bone/Vampiric/Shambling Horror: ~8
Jagged Horror: ~6*
Bone Minions: ~4
(*Jagged Horrors also cause bleeding, which would be great, except the minion AI often clusters up on the same target, so you have one jagged horror that's doing 6 DPS + 6 DPS from bleeding and all the rest are only doing 6 DPS because their target is already bleeding. Usually the bleeding effect is not enough to make up for the lower base DPS. (And then there's the lower HP and lower armor too...))

Can you see why any MM worth their salt will tell you to use as many fiends as possible, supported by as few Bone/Vampiric Horrors as needed to tank for them? (Usually that ends up as 5-7 fiends + 3-5 melee.)

I might also add that the recharge on Shambling Horror is so bad it isn't even funny.

Quote:

animate flesh golem (elite)

Fleshy is a good skill. The damage and tanking ability are respectable. It's just that other elites outshine it in most situations. Order of Undeath provides a lot more DPS. AotL allows you to spam BotM to prop up regular horrors for better unfocused damage soak. Fleshy's probably the best for focused damage soak, though. But it's rare for your team to need focused damage soak and not bring a tank for that purpose. (Hard Mode Tombs is about the only example I can think of.)

Quote:

blood of the master

Good.

Quote:

taste of death

Good as an emergency self-heal. Just please tell me that you aren't using this to pay for your sac costs?...

Quote:

rebirth

You might want to rethink rebirth on an MM. In general, it's a great rez because of the teleport. But, the energy drain is something you are particularly unsuited to handle. Unless you get a lucky shot or two of SR, sending yourself to 0e is likely to cause your army to collapse. That means rezzing in battle is pretty much a non-option and rezzing between battles is going to mean going into the next battle with little to no army left. Plus, the whole "sneak up and teleport your dead teammates out from underneath aggro" thing is a whole bunch harder to do with minions following you.

I tend to use rez chant if I'm going Mo secondary. Mo has a whole bunch of other good rezzes too.

Btw: Very good for you for bringing a rez in the first place!!!

One final suggestion: Try masochism.

furanshisuko · Oct 10, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

thanks for the update then

what would you consider a great mm build then?

edit.-so low health and might need some energy runes instead of hp i just want this build to finish gwen :P not for farming sofar its gr8 but any upgrades are welcome

Stormlord Alex · Oct 10, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Flesh Golem is bad, Minions are bad, Bitter Chill is bad.
(... well, Minions are *good*, but not for this kinda build... needs more Death Nova for minions)

... Dark Bond, however, is very much sweet. Use it.

Chthon · Oct 10, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by furanshisuko

thanks for the update then

what would you consider a great mm build then?

Very Generic MM Template:
Death = 12 + 1 + 3
SR = 10 + 1 or 2 (or maybe 3)
Self-Heal's Attribute = 8

1. Rez
2. BotM
3. Bone Fiend
4. Melee Minion: Vamp Horror or Bone Horror
5. Self-Heal: Heal Area or Mystic Regen (maybe others)
6. E-Management: Masochism or Signet of Lost Souls
7. Free space
8. Elite: Order of Undeath/Aura of the Lich/(maybe) Flesh Golem

Notes:

If you use OoU, then use vamp horrors.
If you use mystic regen, use masochism and put another enchant in the free space. (Probably dark bond or infuse condition.)
If you use AtoL, you don't need another self-heal (so you could use the self-heal space as a free space), but you might bring another self heal that's "spiky" in case you need to recover from a spike.
If you use Heal Area, you will need some secondary healing for during battle. (Vamp horrors are a very good option.)
Good options for the free space include: Rotting Flesh, Well of Suffering, Necrosis, Signet of Sorrow, Taste of Death, various PvE-only skills, Etc...
Bad options for the free space include anything in the death line that does cold damage.
It might be possible to replace the rez with rez scrolls. I really haven't tried them out enough to decide if they're good enough (and cheap enough) to really replace a rez on the bar.

furanshisuko · Oct 11, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

wow,ty :P so that means i had a nooby build since factions came out XD

blue.rellik · Oct 11, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Don't worry it's a good start and can become a great build, however you'll need to make some changes.

R E Z E R · Oct 12, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

The vast majority of MM builds on the whole are very similar... I mean the idea of MMing is to make as many minions as possible. Making a meat-shield. I suggest not using Taste of Death.. Kinda owns your minions, and with dark bond its not tottaly necesary. When going from one area to another Karei's Healing Circle works like a charm. But on the whole... MM builds are extremly similar, not much deviation if your an MM.

Vex · Oct 14, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

I used a General minion build.
N/Mo
Death Magic: 11 + 1 + 3
Soul Reaping: 8 + 1
Healing Prayers: 11
Protection Prayers: 3

Went with: Ghial's Staff

My Skill Layout is: Flesh Golem, Bone Minions, Putrid Flesh, Death Nova, Infuse Conditions, Draw Conditions, Dwayna's Sorrow, and Rebirth.

The object of this build is to amass as many minions as possible, I then cast Death Nova on my minions and Dwayna's Sorrow so when I use putrid flesh to blow them all up Anyone in their area in my party gets healed, while they deal disease damage on all the baddies around, as they die I pick up the minions and go on doing the same as needed.

This build is not mine I got this build from a friend and he got it off of wiki so all props go to the original mind behind the build.

random.name · Oct 14, 2007, 07:52 AM // 07:52

I run a weird MM build... I basically have the standard MM build, but for my elite I use SS.

Chthon · Oct 14, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vex

I used a General minion build.
N/Mo
Death Magic: 11 + 1 + 3
Soul Reaping: 8 + 1
Healing Prayers: 11
Protection Prayers: 3

Went with: Ghial's Staff

My Skill Layout is: Flesh Golem, Bone Minions, Putrid Flesh, Death Nova, Infuse Conditions, Draw Conditions, Dwayna's Sorrow, and Rebirth.

The object of this build is to amass as many minions as possible, I then cast Death Nova on my minions and Dwayna's Sorrow so when I use putrid flesh to blow them all up Anyone in their area in my party gets healed, while they deal disease damage on all the baddies around, as they die I pick up the minions and go on doing the same as needed.

This build is not mine I got this build from a friend and he got it off of wiki so all props go to the original mind behind the build.

1. This is NOT a minion master build. This is a minion bomber build. They both use minions, but they are very different in just about every other important respect.
2. Just about every post-Nightfall MB build uses JB for the elite for very good reasons. It gives you new minions for 5e -- cheaper even than bone minions or shambling horrors. And it allows you to create minions from minions in addition to minions from bodies on a greater scale than Fleshy does. And since that ability was the main draw of Fleshy for MB builds, there's not a lot to recommend the big guy for MB builds anymore. (In short: You should switch to JB.)
3. Thank you for reminding me of the infuse conditions/draw conditions gimmick. I think I know someone who might be interested in that...

Batou of Nine · Oct 14, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Here is what i do...

i usually leave the MMing to a hero and give him:
[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Verata's Sacrifice[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

If in an all human team, then i go with:
[skill]Order of Undeath[/skill][skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Thats just some variations of what i use, although i have about 12 MM builds saved, i'm just too lazy to list em all. lol.

cheers.

ValaOfTheFens · Oct 15, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I use the wiki build for myself(I could use something else but since I rarely MM there's really no reason) but for MoW or Olias I use:

[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of The Master[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Well of Blood[/skill][skill]Heal Area[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

I added in Well of Blood recently after dying to Afflicted in Cantha occasionally and found there was no reason to take it out.

majiger · Oct 24, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Quick rundown on minion DPS for you:
Fleshy: ~26
Fiend: ~14
Bone/Vampiric/Shambling Horror: ~8
Jagged Horror: ~6*
Bone Minions: ~4
(*Jagged Horrors also cause bleeding, which would be great, except the minion AI often clusters up on the same target, so you have one jagged horror that's doing 6 DPS + 6 DPS from bleeding and all the rest are only doing 6 DPS because their target is already bleeding. Usually the bleeding effect is not enough to make up for the lower base DPS. (And then there's the lower HP and lower armor too...))

Can you see why any MM worth their salt will tell you to use as many fiends as possible, supported by as few Bone/Vampiric Horrors as needed to tank for them? (Usually that ends up as 5-7 fiends + 3-5 melee.)

I might also add that the recharge on Shambling Horror is so bad it isn't even funny.

Ok, I have been playing as a MM since day 1 of guild wars and seen all the crap that was going on, BONE MINIONS ARE NOT WORTHLESS!!

For anyone who decides to take Fleshy AND minions, DO NOT TAKE ANY OTHER SUMMONING SKILL!!

Here is why: Your fleshy runs around and smacks things for like 20 something dmg usually. Then you have your 9 or so minions.

All you use them for is death nova cannon fodder.(don't start flaming that it's crap I get my team out of shit in no time with this in HA(old HA where people were good and not taking builds from wiki and running that over and over, dont flame me bout this as well))

and if your taking fiend ALWAYS combo with Bone.

Chthon · Oct 24, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by majiger

Ok, I have been playing as a MM since day 1 of guild wars and seen all the crap that was going on, BONE MINIONS ARE NOT WORTHLESS!!

For anyone who decides to take Fleshy AND minions, DO NOT TAKE ANY OTHER SUMMONING SKILL!!

Here is why: Your fleshy runs around and smacks things for like 20 something dmg usually. Then you have your 9 or so minions.

All you use them for is death nova cannon fodder.(don't start flaming that it's crap I get my team out of shit in no time with this in HA(old HA where people were good and not taking builds from wiki and running that over and over, dont flame me bout this as well))

and if your taking fiend ALWAYS combo with Bone.

For a minion master bone minions are worthless. End of story.

What you're describing sounds like a bad minion bomber build. To design either well, you need to comprehend the difference. To make a decent MB build, you need to go cap Jagged Bones. To be taken seriously, you need to quit insisting that playing a minion bomber in "old HA" "since day 1 of guild wars" somehow makes your opinions any less ridiculous than if you had posted them without your autobiography attached.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Oct 25, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

MBing is fun, I used to do it all the time in RA and PVE before jagged bones nerf.